What you would like to see for the future of SL1

[The Borg]

Right, received an email last night (really should read of emails more as only just read it). I think this is really really important this goes out to all and everybody who is interested in seeing the future of SL1 improve gets involved so I can go back to Junior with a detailed report with what we would like, what we don't want..

This is your email just so you can understand where I'm coming from

Hi Nathan,

I'm thinking of what is needed to update/improve the game and want to put out some sort of survey soon.
SL1 seems the stronger game in terms of users, but I'm trying to work out what the good bits of SL2 are to perhaps incorporate into new SL1 game etc.
Any initial thoughts would be welcome.

I'll contact you and some others with more info down the line.


Thanks,


Junior




So please give me your genuine and honest ideas on where we should go with this as it's not just me. The discussion is open. You know how much I like discussion.

[The Borg]

Just want to make it clear how important this is. No idea if I should've posted this. Probably not. But we must make it clear what we want to see from Junior going forward as the lead game for catgames. I'm not asking them to get rid of SL2 if them guys want to play it it's entirely up to them but what I don't want to see is stuff like gloves energy bars and what not on here am I right??

Anyway, please get involved, discuss and give Junior some ideas.


I understand this will cause alot of speculation and we don't know what's gonna happen but what we can do is push him in the right direction.

[superj]

The thing I didn't like about SL2 was the whole kind of micro transactions of extra equipment to give players the edge, just seemed like the more you pay the better you are, it should be fair how SL1 already is.

It doesn't need much updating at all, maybe the match engine abit, and a committed customer service

If anything from SL2 is brought into SL1 I won't be around for long, LONG LIVE SL1

Don't know if anyone has said this before but maybe have a cup named after the great Terry Ricketts? Possibly the Server Cup?

[Wizard]

Okay, so I think we can ALL agree that one of the reasons why SL2 never worked out was because it was far too complicated. It was too fiddly, and there were far too many things to think about (e.g., stadiums, fans, equipment... I can't think of any more features because it has been years since I logged into it). The reason why SL1 has excelled and have continued to excel is because of its simplicity. Simplicity is often best, and it doesn't take very long to master the game.

Which brings me to my first improvement/suggestion: The game IS easy to learn and master, and it does not take long to pick things up. New users would not know this... and this is why accessible training/tips/guidance is the VERY FIRST POINT to consider. New users need to feel that they can click on a link and receive immediate instructions. You wouldn't play Monopoly for the first time without reading the instructions, would you? They need pointers about what they should do first; setting up tactics (what tactics beat what), training (inc. what each of the training options improve), private leagues, transfers, etc --- everything that is important to playing the game. They'll need to know that in order to stand a chance, it is recommended that they purchase credits. I can imagine that some people would recognise that they need to buy credits to compete, and think: "no, I'm not spending any money!!" and not log back in again. This needs to be clarified sooner... perhaps there could be a credit offer for new users? We want SL1 to grow and improve and thrive, so this is the No.1 way to attract and potentially keep new users. This needs to be done before we go all out on advertising.

At the same time, if you have played the game for years and years, its simplicity may start to get a bit boring. So we also need something extra for old users... something simple perhaps, but just SOMETHING to provide users with something - anything - new to focus on. What this is, I don't know. A new feature? New tactics? (although, I remember pressing didn't work when it was first introduced). More advanced tactics? More attributes? A new pyramid system (with one top league?) More league competitions (a champions league?) One of the reasons why many users continue to stick around is because of the Friendly League, so it seems obvious to me that the game would benefit from exciting new leagues for everyone to take part in.

So in summary, we need to appease new users by showing off its simplicity via detailed instructions, and we need to appease old users by introducing something new that makes the game a bit more interesting/isn't complex/that new users can also understand. The game does not, in my opinion, need renovation. It just needs a couple of tweaks and maybe 1/2 new feature(s) to play around with.

[stupac]

The most important thing, in my opinion, is to go hard on advertising SL1. Give it it's own website/home page and just make sure people are seeing it and are aware of the game. The best thing i can think of for SL1 is for a huge wave of new managers to join( and more keep joining) and get the game bustling with people like it used to be.

However as mentioned by Wizard there isn't much point advertising until the game is at its best and new managers are more likely to stick around. Fix any bugs in the match engine and make the squad strength to tactical advantage ratio a bit fairer. Also playing long ball with 5 in midfield or passing/continental with 2 in midfield should obviously not work. And the whole early subs thing is just silly and annoying. A tutorial for beginners as soon as they start playing is a great idea. I have tried introducing friends to SL over the years but none of them stuck around long or became competitive because they didn't know what to do or how to play.
Once you know what to do though SL1 is very simple and easy to play which is why it's stood the test of time this long. SL2 was too different and too much of a learning curve even for seasoned SL1 players which makes no sense as it essentially became a completely different game instead of an update/improvement.

A credit bonus for new managers is also a great incentive for them to stay as how to earn credits is not immediately obvious to new managers. Perhaps 10,000 credits to start? Enough to build a full squad of players costing the minimum 500 credits.

Speaking of credits I'd like to see the return of buying credits/membership by text. I used to get my membership by sending a text that cost £1.50 from my phone as I was still in school then and couldn't exactly purchase £30 worth of credits on an online game. CG should note that a lot of their users are kids/teens like I was when I joined and should offer options for them or people who wish to spend less money.

Have the forum part of the game like it used to be. Having this forum as a separate website where you have to sign up and create a separate accounts has surely alienated a lot of players from coming on the forums. The more people and banter we have on the forum the better.

More official competitions. Not ones like the super cup or beer cup as these are pointless in my opinion. An official champions league would be great and a good incentive to try that bit harder for that top 4 spot. Personally I think the Friendly League is good as it is as a private league. I think the Inter Conference Cup could be rebranded as a kind of official UCB, personally I'd be much more interested in that as the ICC and Elite Cup are pretty similar.

The only thing I would keep from SL2 is the live chat on the side of the screen (or a pop up for mobile). Speaking of mobile, a mobile sized version of the site or even an app would make things a lot easier on mobile devices.

I could probably go on but if this doesn't come to anything I've wasted enough time already lol.

Long live the real Sundayleague (SL1 )

[davywinter]

As has been said, the simplicity of the game is what makes it so appealing to me, and it doesn't take a huge chunk of my day to set up tactics etc.

A couple of things that I think need fixed off the top of my head -

the '3 subs bug'

the transfer market - the majority don't use the likes of Attacking defs/mids or right/left forwards. I not saying take them away completely but I'd like to see the ratio adjusted a bit.



I'd also be interested in an 'official' Champions League style comp on the game, with groups of 4 and then ko for the last 16

[touchnplay]

Exactly what Wizard and superj said really if we start seeing the gloves energy bars, fans basically any of that shit it will spell the end. Agree with new players having a mail sent to them explaining the game. In my opinion I would like to see:

- A bit of dev work on the mobile site I can't seem to access some of the pages from my mobile (S6) seems to just be the links arent working which should be an easy fix.

- Private league gelling to work 100% of the time

- Clarification around the advantage early subsitions have - I think it's unrealistic that subbing 3 players on in the 1st/15th minute give you an advantage

- A top level pyramid system could be good but could spell the end of the FL which I really enjoy. As Wizard said a champions league/Uefa cup type competition could work

- Not adverse to larger squad sizes 25 max though, for this to work there would need to be an updated transfer market but not like on SL2 where there were players rated at 45 etc

- An option to change formation during the game could be interesting so add that to the ATs

- I like the idea of being able to save certain formations

- x-1-1 winners to get 5000 credits instead of 1500

- Start advertising the game more like before to drive new manager to the site

As others have said wholesale changes is not what the game needs just some tweaks and widening the reach of the game to new users

[touchnplay]

Speaking of credits I'd like to see the return of buying credits/membership by text. I used to get my membership by send g a text that cost £1.50 from my phone as I was still in school them and couldn't exactly purchase £30 worth of credits on an online game. CG should note that a lot of there users are kids/teens like I was when I joined and should offer options for them or people who wish to spend less money.

Have the forum part of the game like it used to be. Having this forum as a separate website where you have to sign up and create a separate accounts has surely alienated a lot of players from coming on the forums. The more people and banter we have on the forum the better.

Great points

[The Borg]

Thanks for the responses. Please do keep them coming in and discuss.

Will give e my thoughts later. Just wanted to repost as received another email from Junior with the following. Hopefully this works and this is via my phone.


Hi Nathan,

Thanks for getting back to me.

Yes, I can see that there is a lot of SL2 that players can do without (Gloves,Kit, Boots and probably pitch sizes etc).
The problem with SL1 is that I can't make any changes to it now besides things like page layouts - it's too old and rigid the way it was programmed.

SL1 can take hours to test one change to the engine which is written in C++, whereas nowadays it can take minutes with a new design in PHP.

What I can do is some sort of reverse engineering and put the core of the game within a new code base. (the one SL2 uses).
Basically, it would have the flexibility of SL2 with the competitions, cups and firms and chat etc. as well as live friendlies, match analysis etc (that has been a bane of my life with SL1 - lots of people wanting to know why did i lose?).

So I'm basically saying I'm all for a simplistic base game (SL1), but with some of the quality of life improvements from SL2.
I could then easily add things like setup and play from mobile / facebook etc and it would take less time to fix any bugs.

I'd remove all the more gimmicky stuff. but this would allow the game to be improved and keep the basics that the players like on SL1

Please do get some opinions if you can.


Many Thanks



Now what I get from that is SL1 has to move for us to progress. That's nothing new. Going on a sl2 platform is no problem all be it they do seem to have alot of bugs??? Anyway, what you reckon?? I'd basically take SL1 how it is and implement stuff we want. Not this stuff sl2 has. Like live friendlies interested?? Match analysis interested?? Firms?? No thanks. Please let me know feedback for a response. As far as I'm aware that's no for us?? We play SL1 for SL1. If I wanted that I'd play SL2.

[Baggio]

Looks like things are moving in the right direction, would be good to see the game back to its best!

[davywinter]

Hi Nathan,

Thanks for getting back to me.

Yes, I can see that there is a lot of SL2 that players can do without (Gloves,Kit, Boots and probably pitch sizes etc).
The problem with SL1 is that I can't make any changes to it now besides things like page layouts - it's too old and rigid the way it was programmed.

SL1 can take hours to test one change to the engine which is written in C++, whereas nowadays it can take minutes with a new design in PHP.

What I can do is some sort of reverse engineering and put the core of the game within a new code base. (the one SL2 uses).
Basically, it would have the flexibility of SL2 with the competitions, cups and firms and chat etc. as well as live friendlies, match analysis etc (that has been a bane of my life with SL1 - lots of people wanting to know why did i lose?).

So I'm basically saying I'm all for a simplistic base game (SL1), but with some of the quality of life improvements from SL2.
I could then easily add things like setup and play from mobile / facebook etc and it would take less time to fix any bugs.

I'd remove all the more gimmicky stuff. but this would allow the game to be improved and keep the basics that the players like on SL1

Please do get some opinions if you can.


Many Thanks



Now what I get from that is SL1 has to move for us to progress. That's nothing new. Going on a sl2 platform is no problem all be it they do seem to have alot of bugs??? Anyway, what you reckon?? I'd basically take SL1 how it is and implement stuff we want. Not this stuff sl2 has. Like live friendlies interested?? Match analysis interested?? Firms?? No thanks. Please let me know feedback for a response. As far as I'm aware that's no for us?? We play SL1 for SL1. If I wanted that I'd play SL2.

I've no problem with adding additional stuff, as long as it doesn't effect the game play.

The 'live friendlies' I can possibly see me watching a big final live or something but for the most part I wouldn't use it. It wouldn't bother me that it was there though.

Match analysis wouldn't annoy me either & could even come in useful for learning the game better.

What does he mean by 'firms'? Is that meant to say forums? An integrated forum would be great and probably encourage more people to use it.

I doubt I'd use the chat much but again it wouldn't bother me if introduced.

[davef]

There has to be motivation for managers who are not top of their leagues or progressing in cups to stay interested.

Play-offs in the EFL has kept teams as far down leagues as half-way still with an interest going into the final few weeks of a season (unlike SL where the only ones with any interest are the one --- or two/three --- competing at the top of their leagues.

Also "proper" cups for what might be called the 2nd or 3rd tiers of managers who, for varying reasons, will never compete to win conferences or a major trophy. Is it any wonder they lose interest and walk away --- or refuse to invest much money in a game where they can't ever enjoy any success.

And sort out gelling. If it is going to continue to play an important part in the game then it has to be consistently available over various competitions and managers need to know exactly how and why (and how often) it works.

Maybe also do away with the random goal winner in drawn cup matches. Surely there is a better way based on penalty and/or stamina and/or possession stats?

Finally peace on Earth and good will to all people regardless of religion or race.  Excepting anyone from a country that knocks England out of the approaching World Cup. And Australians. And Germans. Obviously.

PS Get rid of the three early subs nonsense. Bring back a (lunchtime?) cup for league runners-up. Remember that giving newcomers a nice joining bonus will probably see it all spent on buying players and player-training and Friendlies will get ignored leaving players to stagnate. Maybe give a small credits bonus for joining, a half-season's worth of free Friendlies and a season's free training so new managers can play and also see how they can improve players.

[davidvangaal]

Most of what I would say has already been said. 

As far as the 3 sub things is concerned I don't think its really a bug.  I think the advantage of making the 3 subs comes about because this prevents the match engine from subbing players into incorrect positions during the game due to injury. When you combine this with the fact that players in the wrong position are heavily penalised by the match engine then you get an advantage by making the early sub.  The other factor is that players who are injured and can't be subbed do not suffer  the performance drop that perhaps they should.

In the early days of this game( pre 2005)  the penalty for playing out of position was not so great.  I used to successfully select players for positions based on their attributes rather than their "named position"  e.g.  I would often play a midfielder who had high tackling stats in defence when playing long ball so that I could benefit from his long passing ability.  This used to work well. I also think that's more like the real world.  Managers change players positions based on their attributes rather than their label.  ( Valencia and Young at Man United being good examples)  So I would favour a simple change that reduced the penalty for playing out of "position" and allowed more focus on attributes.  It could be argued that this requires more managerial skill too.  That would  help with the " 3 subs bug" .   If a change was also made so that  injured players suffer the same degradation in performance irrespective of whether a sub is availalabe then the  advantage of the early subs would disappear. 

More importantly though, I appreciate Junior's point that he can't make changes to this game without migrating it to a different platform.  If that is the case then I would like to be assured , now,  that teams will be migrated too, exactly as they are now ( same players, same attributes)   I don't want to spend the next six months upgrading and finessing by players skills only to find that I have to start again on a new platform.  If that is the case I would very unhappy and even a complete refund of every credit I have ever purchased would not placate me.  It's the time I put into this game  that matters, not the cost,  and I would like to know its not going to be wasted by a migration to a new platform .  I really would prefer to continue unchanged than have to start again, irrespective of the amount of credits granted.  Please could Junior let us know on this..
 

[stupac]

If we really would have to move to a new server to further the game then so be it. But it needs to be this game. We want SL1 exactly as it is now just with a few tweaks and minor changes. The game itself is perfect as it is.

As David mentioned I'm sure we would all like to be assured that we would keep our teams exactly as they are if or whenever it happened. Also I'd like to carry over our team history pages, and for those that have it, our extended team history pages.

All the features mentioned by Junior are not of interest to me. I don't want SL2 or even to meet in between with SL1.5.
The match analysis could be useful for those strange games we can't explain. But that and the live chat are the only things from SL2 I'd be happy with.

If SL1 has to be rebuilt in a newer system then ok. But I'd like to see this version remain open in case it all went tits up and we lost everything or it turned out to be another SL2. We've been there before and lost a lot of managers because of it.

[stupac]

Don't know if this is just me but this might explain a lack of new member joining. On the register page I can't see the tick box for the T&C's which you have to tick to join.

Tried attaching a screenshot but the file is too big for this old girl to handle.