Video Games Thread

[AVFCRoss]

Thought the trophy system was very unappealing when I had a PS3 tbh. Gamerscore isn't much better. I've only got about 12.5k in 3 years on XBL.

I've never experienced GamerScore, but I do find the concept of the trophy system to be a much more engaging one.

As Harv said, you've got the RPG style levelling system...It's gonna be excellent when they finally give people rewards for hitting the next level, and then you've got the Platinum trophy...It's better to finish a trophy list and then get rewarded with a physical aesthetic that shows you've actually finished the game...Some Platinum trophies look amazing too and it's just that extra step that is so simple, yet incredibly effective, rather than just unlocking every trophy and then leaving it at that.

I find the Platinum trophy encourages completion more too...The crowning glory for trophy hunters is the Platinum...On the 360 it's just more about racking up as many points as possible towards your overall score, so you can afford to skimp out on harder games and just move onto something else that will increase your score quicker, thus the system somewhat loses prestige.

[jman]

I dont think theres much difference to be honest... both systems aren't indictative of skill at all....but if your picking a winner, I'd go with the 360 system simply because the achievements are better in-built into the 360 dash, they are easier to access in-game, far easier to compare gamerscores on games between friends....plus its supported on far more games than the ps3 system. 

The problem with the trophy system is the platinum trophy.. if theres one trophy thats bugged, or one trophy that requires a ridiculously stupid amount of time to get.. then its a very unappealing system... Plus, if someone took several hundred hours to get one platinum in COD... I could be the same level as him if I got a platinum in a game like a Lego game - which will take about 20 hours.... shows the massive flaw in having a levelling system... levels should indicate skill, but trophies will never indicate skill because there is no standard difficulty to a trophy across games.

With the 360, yeah its much more simple.. and its just a score... its not trying to be something it cant be.

[Late]

They seem fine at making games consoles so far. I missed every single N64 and Gamecube game the last two gens due to owning a PS1 and PS2 but thanks to the Wii having backwards compatibility, the VC and the Homebrew scene being so strong I've played a fair few of the games that I missed out on - including the best rated game of all-time, Ocarina of Time - and have been quite impressed.

They were capable of making consoles in the 80s and 90s. That's a LONG time ago.
Yes, Zelda was good - in the nineties. Still is, to some people who are stuck in the past.
FF7 was better. At the time. We're talking about hardware though.

The Wii is also the only seriously underpowered console they've ever made

So far. Give it another 3 months.

and even so it has inspired both Sony and Microsoft to copy motion controls and Miis.

Whether companies are copying controls and avatars is debatable. Lets just go with the legal position.
Courts worldwide: have you fined Sony or Microsoft for copyright infringement, or banned the sale of their consoles?
Thought not.

The NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube were all powerful consoles.

Nintendo made good consoles in the 80s and 90s, yes. I don't think anyone's arguing with that. I loved the NES and SNES back in the day. But then quarter of a century happened.

The U is going to have none of the disadvantages that the Wii has had this gen thanks to their choice of hardware components and architecture.

Wii - massively inferior graphical output, RAM, and processing power, incredibly weak online system, and beset by shovelware.
Wii U - massively inferior graphical output, RAM, and processing power, untested fledgling online system, and likely to be beset by shovelware.
The U is all set to have most of the problems the Wii had - plus it's own new problems.

It's got a ridiculous amount of quality third party support at launch and during the launch window and is going to sell a shitload.

Yeah, the Wii had ridiculous amounts of third party support, too. Mainly shovelware.

All sounds pretty good to me, Sony and Microsoft may have serious problems shifting units given their chosen amounts of RAM...buying a PS4 and 720 is not going to be cheap. And if they don't shift enough units they may find the consoles being in the same sort of position as the Vita which is having trouble getting third party support.

Buying a ps4/720 is going to be cheaper than buying a U and a dozen peripherals, playing it for a few months, sticking it in a cupboard to gather dust before going out to buy a ps4 or 720.
It's worth paying the bit extra to get quality. Buying cheap shit to save money is often a false economy - as was the case with the Wii and will be the case with the U.

And if they don't shift enough units they may find the consoles being in the same sort of position as the Vita which is having trouble getting third party support.

The nextbox and ps4 will sell by the bucket load, and will have no problems getting third party support. As with the last generation.

Edit: Bloody hell, just noticed that Arkham Citeh is still selling well and was wondering why the GOTY Edition wasn't selling anywhere as good. The bloody thing isn't even released over here yet  It's not due out until next month. What the buggering flip is going on with that..?!!?!? They had it in May in the States  Looks like the U SKU is only going to be a month or two behind the PS3 and 360 SKUs. Not a bad result for Nintendo.
Going to have to continue my playthrough of Arkham Asylum soon in preparation for the U GOTY Edition.

Aye, having a game that's over a year old as one of your launch titles is a cracking result. 

[harv]

The U is not going to be in the same position as the Wii because it isn't going to have massively inferior RAM, processing power and especially graphical output due to Nintendo's choices with regards to hardware components and architecture. It will have no problems both supplying up-ports and receiving downports to and from the other two consoles. It's going to be in the same sort of ballpark as the other two consoles, as the PS2 was last gen but will have the advantage that the PS2 didn't have in that the GPU7 will have the same feature set as the PS4 and 720.

As for the shovelware, of course it will get it - all consoles with a vastly superior marketshare always does. The PS2 last gen had the same problem.

And copyright infringement..? No. That would only apply if they had named their motion controls the remote and nunchuck and the avatars Miis. Even Move isn't a patent infringement due to that system having the light and camera in opposite positions compared to the Wii's motion control solution. You wouldn't have Miis and motion controls if Nintendo hadn't caused a great deal of stir, hype and success doing it first. Sony and Microsoft both copied motion controls and Miis from Nintendo, that's an undeniable fact, and that copying is the main reason why Nintendo have been so strict with the release of information by third parties - I've a feeling that Nintendo have held something back about either the console or the GamePad for this reason, we'll find out either next week or next month.

And a dozen peripherals..? If you have a dozen bits of plastic golf clubs, tennis rackets, steering wheels etc that's your own fault. None of those are needed to play the Wii. All you need to play the Wii and Wii U are additional controllers, and if you have a Wii all controllers are compatible with the U. I really can't see a problem here.

And as I've already mentioned, Arkham City Armoured Edition isn't going to be a year old port - it's only going to be a month or two behind the PS3 and 360 SKUs in Europe and 5 or 6 months behind in the States. I'm still baffled by that...4 months for localisation..? Very odd.

[Late]

The U is not going to be in the same position as the Wii because it isn't going to have massively inferior RAM, processing power and especially graphical output due to Nintendo's choices with regards to hardware components and architecture.

You're constantly telling us that the nextbox and ps4 will have loads of ram, but you're now asserting that the U won't have massively inferior ram? The U's processing power is widely acknowledged to be a lot lower than everyone expects for next gen - with a lot of reports saying it's on a par with the 360/ps3. The next consoles from Sony and Microsoft will be significantly more powerful. And if graphical output on all first party games is locked to 720p it's going to be behind the other consoles in that regard too.

It will have no problems both supplying up-ports and receiving downports to and from the other two consoles. It's going to be in the same sort of ballpark as the other two consoles, as the PS2 was last gen but will have the advantage that the PS2 didn't have in that the GPU7 will have the same feature set as the PS4 and 720.

It will not be in the same sort of ballpark as the other two consoles. The other two consoles are likely to be around 3-5 times as powerful as the U. If they were 10% more powerful than the U you could say they're in the same ballpark. 20% and you could still argue it. 50% more powerful and you're not going to convince anyone. But we're talking 300% here. Not only is that not in the same ball park. It's playing a different game, in some poverty-stricken backwater somewhere, dreaming of playing with the big boys.

As for the shovelware, of course it will get it - all consoles with a vastly superior marketshare always does. The PS2 last gen had the same problem.

The ps2 did not have the same problems last generation. Never in the history of mankind has anyone or anything been subjected to the amount of shite under-produced cash-ins as the Wii was.

And copyright infringement..? No. That would only apply if they had named their motion controls the remote and nunchuck and the avatars Miis.

Where do you get these ridiculous notions from? I've only had a limited amount of experience with copyright and patent law, so I'm no expert, but you're talking out of your arse.
Surprising, isn't it, that the judges in all the copyright/patent suits around the world between Sony and Samsung haven't said "there's no case here - that tablet of Samsung's isn't called "ipad"...! Just one example (picked as it's high profile).

Even Move isn't a patent infringement due to that system having the light and camera in opposite positions compared to the Wii's motion control solution. You wouldn't have Miis and motion controls if Nintendo hadn't caused a great deal of stir, hype and success doing it first. Sony and Microsoft both copied motion controls and Miis from Nintendo, that's an undeniable fact, and that copying is the main reason why Nintendo have been so strict with the release of information by third parties

Nintendo didn't invent motion control, nor avatars.

I've a feeling that Nintendo have held something back about either the console or the GamePad for this reason, we'll find out either next week or next month.

Aye, me too. I think they're going to call a press conference and announce something like "sorry - we've realised it's crap so we're going to scrap this poorly conceived console and start again. We'll get back to you in a few years..."

And a dozen peripherals..? If you have a dozen bits of plastic golf clubs, tennis rackets, steering wheels etc that's your own fault. None of those are needed to play the Wii. All you need to play the Wii and Wii U are additional controllers, and if you have a Wii all controllers are compatible with the U. I really can't see a problem here.

Didn't bother with golf clubs, tennis rackets, etc. Did get a steering wheel boxed with Mario Kart, and found that actually was useful.
Some of my wii peripherals:
wiimote 1
wiimote 2
wiimote 3
wiimote 4
nunchuck 1
nunchuck 2
nunchuck 3
nunchuck 4
balance board
mario kart steering wheel
unofficial steering wheel 1
unofficial steering wheel 2
guitar hero guitar 1
guitar hero guitar 2
guitar hero drumkit
zelda gun
generic poundshop gun
There'll be others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. And that list of 17 items is from someone who doesn't even like the wii. I'd imagine lots of folk have more. I've not included the plethora of coloured and padded "condoms" for all the wiimotes and nunchucks.

And as I've already mentioned, Arkham City Armoured Edition isn't going to be a year old port - it's only going to be a month or two behind the PS3 and 360 SKUs in Europe and 5 or 6 months behind in the States. I'm still baffled by that...4 months for localisation..? Very odd.

It's a port of a game that's more than a year old.
Who cares that the SKU you're talking about was only released recently. It's just the first time all the dlc has been packaged together - but the game and the vast majority of that dlc have been available since last year.

[jman]

Real Life Goldeneye 64 LOL - brilliant!!!

[harv]

I'm quite right about the patents and copyright. If Nintendo had patented gaming avatars then Sony and Microsoft wouldn't have been able to copy them. And it's impossible to patent a generic 'motion control' idea. To get a patent granted you need specifics, and those specifics weren't copied. And, again, if Nintendo hadn't had a ridiculous amount of success with Miis and motion controls you wouldn't have them on the PS3 and 360.

And Nintendo aren't even announcing their new ideas for software and IPs until the last minute because Sony and Microsoft keep on copying those too - look at the Wii Sports, Smash Bros. clones and Halo Prime 4 as prime examples. How long before we see a SonyLand and MicrosoftLand next gen lololol..?

Again, the PS4 and 720 aren't going to be significantly more powerful. The most powerful of the two, the 720, is going to be twice as powerful. 1.75-2 times more RAM, around 3 times as much GPU processing power (without the advantages that the U GPU will have thanks to their patented more efficient algorithms) and 2-2.66 times more cores. However, a fair amount of that processing power is going to be unavailable to developers thanks to Microsoft being obsessed with this media centre bollocks and having DVR functionality unless Microsoft decide not to allow gaming and DVR functionality at the same time which will be about as useful as a chocolate teapot. That isn't significantly more powerful, that's in the same sort of ballpark - in last gen terms that's about the same as the difference between the PS2 and the Xbox, but as I've already mentioned the U GPU will have the advantage that the PS2 didn't have with the GPU having the exact same feature set.

And most of those are extra controllers rather than useless pieces of plastic and if you already have a Wii with those controllers you won't need to buy any more for 5 player local multiplayer. And the Guitar Hero stuff would be there if you had Guitar Hero on the other two consoles. The useless pieces of plastic - the steering wheels, guns etc are your own stupid fault.

[harv]

Real Life Goldeneye 64 LOL - brilliant!!!

Fucking brilliant lololol 

[Late]

I think I can save myself some time here, by skipping the pertinent stuff (facts and most likely scenarios) and following your example of "my impression is the same as fact".


Or better still, save even more with the following rebuttals:

I'm quite right about the patents and copyright.

Wrong

If Nintendo had patented gaming avatars then Sony and Microsoft wouldn't have been able to copy them.

Wrong

To get a patent granted you need specifics, and those specifics weren't copied.

Wrong

if Nintendo hadn't had a ridiculous amount of success with Miis and motion controls you wouldn't have them on the PS3 and 360.

Wrong

And Nintendo aren't even announcing their new ideas for software and IPs until the last minute because Sony and Microsoft keep on copying those too

Wrong

the PS4 and 720 aren't going to be significantly more powerful.

Wrong

The most powerful of the two, the 720, is going to be twice as powerful.

Wrong

the advantages that the U GPU will have thanks to their patented more efficient algorithms

Wrong

media centre bollocks

Wrong

isn't significantly more powerful

Wrong

that's in the same sort of ballpark

Wrong

in last gen terms that's about the same as the difference between the PS2 and the Xbox

Wrong

And most of those are extra controllers rather than useless pieces of plastic

Correct. However, I never said they were useless pieces of plastic, so I'm not sure who you're arguing with there. I was talking about the costs of "...buying a U and a dozen peripherals..."

if you already have a Wii with those controllers you won't need to buy any more for 5 player local multiplayer.

You will, however, have some significant expenses if you're planning on buying a U to play the best games available. As I said, you'll need to buy a U and control pad, and then you'll have to buy a sony or a microsoft.
My point is it's going to be cheaper to just buy the ps4/nextbox, and just forgo the Leapster Nintendo.

[harv]

A console being twice as powerful as another isn't a significant difference. The only generation with a significant difference in power between consoles is this one. We probably won't see that happen again, this generation has been very unusual.

1-4 are correct.

5 is correct, Iwata himself has said that they're not announcing new titles until the last minute to give competitors less time to copy them. Look at the games I listed.

As for the controllers, you get a GamePad with the system, and given Nintendo's focus on asymmetric local multiplayer there's a good chance they'll bundle a remoteplus and nunchuck too. And again, why would you need a dozen peripherals..? If you want to play 5 player local multiplayer you'll need extra remotes and nunchucks but the same can be said for any game on any system. The only difference is that the Wii and U have two separate controllers but that really isn't a big deal, especially when most of the asymmetric gameplay shown so far uses the remote only.

[harv]

Boxart for Arkham City GOTY/Armoured Edition:



Not too keen on the blue lightning thing he has going on but it certainly looks better than the US version for pretty much the same game. Has to be the worst boxart I've ever seen:



There's always a chance we may see something different next month when it's released considering the hoo-hah it's had. I really can't understand how some of these people in the industry keep their jobs. The mind really does boggle

[Late]

A console being twice as powerful as another isn't a significant difference.

Wrong.
And if you really believe what you've posted there, why bother getting the U - which isn't even twice as powerful as the ps3/360?

The only generation with a significant difference in power between consoles is this one.

Wrong.
We'll have it next generation too.

We probably won't see that happen again, this generation has been very unusual.

Idle speculation. If Nintendo are still making consoles in the generation after this upcoming one they'll probably do the same thing again.

1-4 are correct.

Wrong.
On four counts.

5 is correct, Iwata himself has said that they're not announcing new titles until the last minute to give competitors less time to copy them. Look at the games I listed.

Wrong.
You're claiming Nintendo are being elusive and secretive about unveiling new stuff because they think it'll be copied, but you're doing so whilst talking about the U - which is, by most folks' reckoning, one of the most screwed up launches ever with a "reveal" waaaay too early.

As for the controllers, you get a GamePad with the system, and given Nintendo's focus on asymmetric local multiplayer there's a good chance they'll bundle a remoteplus and nunchuck too. And again, why would you need a dozen peripherals..? If you want to play 5 player local multiplayer you'll need extra remotes and nunchucks but the same can be said for any game on any system. The only difference is that the Wii and U have two separate controllers but that really isn't a big deal, especially when most of the asymmetric gameplay shown so far uses the remote only.

You've missed the point. If you want to play balanced games on a powerful console with state of the art graphics then you'll end up scrapping the U and getting a playstation/nextbox.

[harv]

A console being twice as powerful as another isn't a significant difference.

Wrong.
And if you really believe what you've posted there, why bother getting the U - which isn't even twice as powerful as the ps3/360?

The only generation with a significant difference in power between consoles is this one.

Wrong.
We'll have it next generation too.

We probably won't see that happen again, this generation has been very unusual.

Idle speculation. If Nintendo are still making consoles in the generation after this upcoming one they'll probably do the same thing again.

1-4 are correct.

Wrong.
On four counts.

5 is correct, Iwata himself has said that they're not announcing new titles until the last minute to give competitors less time to copy them. Look at the games I listed.

Wrong.
You're claiming Nintendo are being elusive and secretive about unveiling new stuff because they think it'll be copied, but you're doing so whilst talking about the U - which is, by most folks' reckoning, one of the most screwed up launches ever with a "reveal" waaaay too early.

As for the controllers, you get a GamePad with the system, and given Nintendo's focus on asymmetric local multiplayer there's a good chance they'll bundle a remoteplus and nunchuck too. And again, why would you need a dozen peripherals..? If you want to play 5 player local multiplayer you'll need extra remotes and nunchucks but the same can be said for any game on any system. The only difference is that the Wii and U have two separate controllers but that really isn't a big deal, especially when most of the asymmetric gameplay shown so far uses the remote only.

You've missed the point. If you want to play balanced games on a powerful console with state of the art graphics then you'll end up scrapping the U and getting a playstation/nextbox.

The U on paper is going to be 3 times more powerful than the 360. 3MB of cache on the CPU compared to 1MB of cache on the Xenon. 2GB of RAM compared to 512MB. 32MB of eDRAM on the GPU compared to 10MB. Take the DSP, Out of Order Execution CPU and separate chip handling IO and you'll have it being around 4 times more powerful in terms of real-world performance before you think about the GPU7 being more efficient and having a far superior feature set. And everything so far is pointing to the 720 being 6-8 times more powerful than the 360.

In terms of generational technology having the 720 twice as powerful as the U really isn't a big deal even if you ignore that some of that power will be reserved for DVR thanks to the GPGPUs having the exact same feature sets. You'll have a difference in eye candy quality for multiplatform titles of course but unlike the Wii it's going to be easy for developers to port to and from all 3 consoles. You'll have a slight downgrade in texture quality, more jaggies, more pop-in and longer loading times but nothing too drastic. And that won't happen until 2014 at the earliest due to developers working with unfinished/underpowered PS4/720 dev kits for most of the development of PS4 and 720 titles (as the U will have until late 2013/early 2014) and developers doing development on final dev kits for most if not all U titles that year. You then also got to take into account that developers for the U will have learnt to squeeze more out of the U hardware due to being more experienced.

We've already seen the likes of Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Assassins Creed 3 and ZombiU having visual effects ahead of anything the PS3 and 360 are capable of and it's going to get better as time goes on.

[Late]

Finally we have something akin to agreement. The u will be slightly better than the 360. The 720 will be much better.

Took you long enough to get here.

Why, then, would serious gamers consider the u?

[harv]

We're not in agreement at all. There's no problem with the 720 being 1.75-2 times more powerful than the U, and even less problems with the PS4 being less powerful than that. Have a look at the PS2 and Xbox last gen, same difference in terms of power and a huge difference in terms of GPU feature set. The U is going to get a SKU of the majority of next gen titles without a problem, albeit with a slight graphical downgrade, and due to a far superior installed userbase will also get a fair few exclusives too.

Microsoft and Sony may end up with serious problems if they have the pricepoints too high. You said earlier they'd both sell no matter what...but people said the exact same thing about the PS3 which was a commercial failure for the first two years of its life until they cut the price and about the Vita which is also failing hard - even in Europe where Sony tend to sell well. The Vita is starting to lose third party support because of it with Vita titles being switched to the U.

If Sony and Microsoft don't end up selling well right at the start they could be d00med

Rayman Legends boxart here:



Hopefully the boxart next gen is going to remain at such a high standard, if there's one thing that's really disappointed me this gen it's the quality of the boxart.

Screens also here:







Looks quite nice

Can't believe that Ubisoft, of all publishers, appear to be bringing so much quality software to the U.