Video Games Thread

[harv]

We'll have to wait and see about the power of it. On paper, from what we can glean from the very few leaks, it's around 3 times more powerful than the 360 in some areas - 3 times the RAM (although I still think we'll see 2GB of DDR3 myself), 3 times the L2 cache for the CPU, 3 times the eDRAM on die for the GPU. One huge thing going in the U's favour is the CPU being OoOE rather than IoE like the 360 and PS3 are stuck with. I can understand why Microsoft chose IoE, because they rushed their CPU development to be first out of the gate but I'm really not sure what Sony were thinking tbh.

Taking everything into account we're looking at a console around 4 times more powerful than the 360 which is pretty much a traditional leap in power from one gen to the next. And I really can't see Sony and Microsoft 'doing a PS3' next gen. The U will be the least powerful of the lot but we're not going to have a Wii situation next gen thanks to Nintendo getting rid of the TEV Unit and replacing it with traditional programable shaders. It'll be easy as pie for developers to up-port to the PS4 and 720 if the U is the lead platform (which should be the case mostly) or down-port from the PS4 and 720 if either one of the other two is the lead platform.

I can't wait for next gen to start tbh, this gen has gone on for far too long.

[jman]

Personally for me.. its the fact the Wii U is going to be fully motion controlled.. thats what puts me off the most...
Then you've got the fact Im not interested in ANY of their 1st party franchises anymore...
Their 3rd party support, whilst it maybe improved, it wont be as good as what the power twins offer..
The fact it has no inbuilt media functionality or hard-drive isnt a massive issue.. but I do get full use of the 360's streaming and playback capabilities
It will be the least powerful console available, I like to have up-to-date gadgets..
Also the fact, none of my mates will buy a nintendo console...

[Late]

Taking everything into account we're looking at a console around 4 times more powerful than the 360 which is pretty much a traditional leap in power from one gen to the next....

We've had nothing but rumours, as is usually the case with Nintendo, and it's impossible to do a direct comparison and say a console is "x" times as powerful as another - but around half the rumours seem to put it at about three times as powerful as the 360, and half the rumours have it about equal with the 360.
I'd imagine both are right, with some elements three times as powerful and some only on a par. And that's a woeful increase in anyone's eyes but Harv's. They've had about seven years to come up with a contender for the next gen crown, and they've come up with something that only just shades the current gen.

Not sure where you get the impression each gen is usually around four times as powerful as the last. I'm pretty sure that most benchmarks have each gen at significantly more than ten times as powerful as the last. And that's when they have around 3 or 4 years to come up with a new gen - this time we've had double that, and could arguably expect to leap forward the equivalent of two generations.
Now I'm not saying the next consoles from Sony and Microsoft will be a hundred times as powerful as their current ones - but they'll surely blow the Nintendo machine out of the water.

As for motion control - I really don't like it, but I can't say whether it's a deciding factor for me at this time - because there's a high probability that all three consoles will have it in one form or another. Hopefully they'll not be the norm on the Sony/Microsoft machines, though, but again we can only speculate at this point...

[harv]

Most people just compare the likes of RAM, GPU, CPU number of cores, number of SMTs and CPU clockspeed. The last two are a complete waste of time when comparing CPUs from one gen to another. It's also pretty pointless looking at those other comparisons and ignoring the fact that the CPU and GPU both have on die eDRAM, the fact that the CPU is OoOE not IoE, the fact that the CPU and the GPU are more efficient and the fact that the GPU is going to have all of the features of SM 4.1 if not 5.0.

The CPU having OoOE is what's bringing my average of 3x to 4x though, this is a huge difference.

In Order Execution means that all processes are in a stack and they need to be processed in order. If the information needed to process that process cycle then the process cycle is idle and the CPU waits for the next cycle to check things out.

Out of Order Execution means that, again, all processes are held in a stack. But this time if the information isn't there then the CPU looks at the next instruction in the stack, or the next, or the next. Meaning that there are a great deal fewer idle processes going on.

OoOE is a very big deal, and one thing that a great deal of people don't think about when comparing CPUs.

[Late]

You're not even considering NaGaS or M-CaW in your argument, though, which is a big deciding factor for most people.
Nintendo are Gay and Shite.
Motion-Controls are Wank.

[harv]

You're not even considering NaGaS or M-CaW in your argument, though, which is a big deciding factor for most people.
Nintendo are Gay and Shite.
Motion-Controls are Wank.

Okay, I'll bite lol. What are those two acronyms you've just made up

Edit: Just got back from Tescos with my 2.1 PC speakers. I've been relegated to my PC running through the Sega branded Conduit speakers I got for free when pre-ordering the first game since Georgie Porgie chewed through the wires on the 2.1 speakers I was using before.

*Shakes fist at Georgie Porgie*

They give surprisingly good sound quality as it goes

Another Edit: Just looked at your quote lol. Sneaky bugger! For the first one opinions may change now that Nintendo are targeting the hardcore/dudebro/enthusiast [delete as applicable]. There are plenty of Nintendo IPs that are untapped this gen that will attract that demographic - Wave Race, 1080^o, F-Zero, Eternal Darkness, Kid Icarus, Star Fox and probably a shedload that I've forgotten about.

[Late]

You're not even considering NaGaS or M-CaW in your argument, though, which is a big deciding factor for most people.
Nintendo are Gay and Shite.
Motion-Controls are Wank.

Okay, I'll bite lol. What are those two acronyms you've just made up

* Late sniggers

[jman]

lol... 

[harv]

*Shakes fist at late*

...but remains happy because he can finally use superscript to display the degree symbol lol

Edit: Forgot to add that for the second acronym the U controller has all the functionality of a traditional controller with the added bonus that it has a touchscreen that's ideal for a number of genres - RPG, RTS, sports games, action RPGs, sandbox games, puzzle games...the list goes on and on. Gearbox have already stated that the U SKU of Alien Colonial Marines is going to be the definitive version to own, partly due to better IQ but mostly due to the controller.

Epic's Mark Rein has also stated that Rocksteady have also implemented some cool uses for the touchscreen controller.

Just because the controller also supports motion controls due to having an accelerometer, gyroscope and magnetometer doesn't mean that all games will be motion control based. Developers have plenty of options to use - a traditional control scheme, a traditional control scheme with motion control elements and a return to full motion controls thanks to the U being compatible with the remote and nunchuck.

[Late]

If it's resistive it'll be crap, and will be significantly more expensive than current generation controllers.  If it's capacitive it'll be ridiculously expensive if you want to use more than one controller - assuming you actually can use more than one controller. Either way it'll be a lot heavier and less ergonomic than current controllers.
And if the tech is there of course motion controls will be incorporated - however badly it's done. Companies will add stupid pointless features that actually detract from the game just so the tech is used - as has happened with games on any platform before it (wii and vita both prime examples).

[harv]

Resistive touchscreens are better suited to gaming mate. Capacitive touchscreens are useless for gaming because they're not accurate enough. Resistive touchscreens are pixel perfect, I've lost count the number of times that I've had to press above or below a link on my phone because clicking on the link itself doesn't do bugger all.

The only advantage that capacitive touchscreens have over resistive is that they're multitouch but having a multitouch touchscreen isn't necessary for gaming when you have two analog sticks and a multitude of buttons available.

All you need to do is play any game on a mobile phone or use a mobile phone to surf the web to realise how crap capacitive touchscreens are.

Edit: Just found out something interesting from Gaf, the 360 always keeps one thread reserved for processing sound. The U has a DSP that handles the audio, meaning that the U CPU is going to have 16.6% more power than the 360's CPU before you take the OoOE and extra eDRAM into account. Am really surprised they decided to do that tbh, but again, it could be due to them rushing to release it

[Late]

Damn but you need a new phone

[harv]

Getting a new one in a few months, got my HTC Desire HD on a two year contract.

Even if they have improved they're still not going to be pixel perfect due to being unsuitable for stylus use.

[Late]

A desire hd should be pretty accurate. Way fancier than my phone, which is perfectly fine.

Don't know why you'd want to use a stylus. If a game or app requires accuracy to the degree you need to use a stylus it's very poorly designed.

[harv]

It's actually one of the Lot Checks that a DS, DSi and 3DS game/app has to be playable without using a stylus, but there are some things, such as SwapNote or anything that involves drawing or writing, that need accuracy. And as I've said, a capacitive touchscreen isn't necessary because the Nintendo consoles have buttons, sticks and d-pads. If there's no need for a capacitive touchscreen then it's pointless having one and upping production and retail costs unnecessarily.