I want to purchase SL.

[Mancunian_Nick]

Wow! Just learned about this and exciting news perhaps. Just wanted to say I first registered on Charlie until the merge and have played SL1 regularly since. I, like many others, did help beta test SL2 but found it far too time consuming and complicated so that didn't last long for me and I've never looked back.

I would say not everyone uses a smartphone/mobile - I still use my pc to play games, including SL. I agree the ME needs fixing with regards to the crazy 3 formations a lot continually use which took away the skill factor. The friendly league which I know not everyone is a fan of but I've always taken seriously needs some fixes so *everyone* gets a chance to fill up their schedules *before* games are refunded (!) but otherwise I really like how this is going so far and other improvements/fixes suggested.

Good luck with it Kush. I wish you well and look forward to hearing more as time goes on. :

[davef]

I am not here to mess this game up and change it in any different ways. To be honest I am doing this for the community of SL as you all deserve better than this. There is no way I am following the SL2 route as that was a major FLOP in my opinion. I'm only interested in fixing SL1 ... I wouldn't even know what to do with SL2.
I want to improve SL1 based on what the community wants.

I'd be very offended if SL2 wasn't given the attention of SL1 in the future. For me SL2 was a vast improvement when it was introduced in 2011. It was vibrant and very playable if you took time to learn how to play. On introduction it was vastly populated and the forums and chat were as busy as the old version if not more so. Terry did a great job in my opinion. And I believe it's a much more polished version of Sundayleague. The only downfall has been the lack of maintenance and advertising much the same as the old game.
If customers who persevered with its growth and development are going to be ignored with a change in ownership I for one won't go back to playing this version because I feel it's a massive step backwards and would be a kick in the teeth to the effort Terry made to develop a game that for me and some others is much better.
I've played SL since its inception and chose to join the new platform because I felt this game had stagnated and become too dated. I don't blame others who didn't like the change, everyone has different tastes. But I think if there can't be two versions of this site that just need to be advertised and developed then those who want something different are being ignored as customers.

I don't think customers have been ignored. When SL2 first appeared, SL1 was in big decline and a lot of people tried SL2 and then rejected init  favour of SL1. With respect, just because a few prefer SL2 doesn't necessarily make it "better" and, in a retail environment, it actually loses out.

If (and it seems an obvious gimmee) the continuation of SL1 and/or 2 will depend (as with pretty well every product put out to sale) on customer choice and much as SL2 has some fans, they would appear to be far far few in number than SL1 with numbers going down not up.

Perhaps those loving SL2 could wait 'til Kush's dealing have come to wonderful fruition then invest their money in buying the rights for SL2 from him?  That's not meant to be harsh or nasty in any way but, given the apparent numbers, it might be the only way of saving SL2?

[munkeespuzz]

I don't think customers have been ignored. When SL2 first appeared, SL1 was in big decline and a lot of people tried SL2 and then rejected init  favour of SL1. With respect, just because a few prefer SL2 doesn't necessarily make it "better" and, in a retail environment, it actually loses out.

If (and it seems an obvious gimmee) the continuation of SL1 and/or 2 will depend (as with pretty well every product put out to sale) on customer choice and much as SL2 has some fans, they would appear to be far far few in number than SL1 with numbers going down not up.

Perhaps those loving SL2 could wait 'til Kush's dealing have come to wonderful fruition then invest their money in buying the rights for SL2 from him?  That's not meant to be harsh or nasty in any way but, given the apparent numbers, it might be the only way of saving SL2?

I don't actually get what you are trying to say here? SL2 was never advertised on its release and just put in place as a upgrade for SL1 users. As it stood on its release, many users loved it as a new version of Sundayleague. And some were attracted who had never played the old game. It's only been let down by junior not advertising it and maintaining it as a stand alone site. I understand you might not like it as a game, but many do. And those of us that continue to pay for a product just as you do for the old site expect to have customer service too. Don't forget pitstopboss! People were still paying to play that game and catgames shut it down with no notice! If that happens again I'm sure you guys would be bleating! We are all customers with opinion and preferences.

[davef]

I don't think customers have been ignored. When SL2 first appeared, SL1 was in big decline and a lot of people tried SL2 and then rejected init  favour of SL1. With respect, just because a few prefer SL2 doesn't necessarily make it "better" and, in a retail environment, it actually loses out.

If (and it seems an obvious gimmee) the continuation of SL1 and/or 2 will depend (as with pretty well every product put out to sale) on customer choice and much as SL2 has some fans, they would appear to be far far few in number than SL1 with numbers going down not up.

Perhaps those loving SL2 could wait 'til Kush's dealing have come to wonderful fruition then invest their money in buying the rights for SL2 from him?  That's not meant to be harsh or nasty in any way but, given the apparent numbers, it might be the only way of saving SL2?

I don't actually get what you are trying to say here? SL2 was never advertised on its release and just put in place as a upgrade for SL1 users. As it stood on its release, many users loved it as a new version of Sundayleague. And some were attracted who had never played the old game. It's only been let down by junior not advertising it and maintaining it as a stand alone site. I understand you might not like it as a game, but many do. And those of us that continue to pay for a product just as you do for the old site expect to have customer service too. Don't forget pitstopboss! People were still paying to play that game and catgames shut it down with no notice! If that happens again I'm sure you guys would be bleating! We are all customers with opinion and preferences.
[/quote

I'm not trying to suggest SL2 should be ditched (the opposite would be true) but I do disagree about SL not being given a fair go. OK, it was only pushed (as far as we know) among existing SL1 managers and I think most had a look, some rejected it immediately, some stayed longer and some are still there playing the game (with or without playing SL1 as well).  And I'm going to guess there are managers on SL2 who have never played SL1? If that is true then somehow the word got out about it because it has attracted those new customers?

My point was that if Kush (or anyone else) does take over the whole thing and intends to spend enough to ensure survival and invest for the future, financial pragmatism might involve ditching the least popular of the two versions or look to sell it. And I am only assuming SL1 is currently the more popular (and potentially more profitable) of the two.  I'm not sure what you expect though? Should we all stand together and demand both games be kept going (involving extra investment) risking him not bothering with a purchase or just allow Kush to make a decision based on financial and market forces and take it however it goes? I doubt, though, that he'd just shut one down (if it became necessary) without warning or a serious dialogue with customers.

[deca]

i really hope that talks between Mustapha ( Kush ) and junior prove to be productive and the game can be taken forward and developed.

I don't think anyone is intentionally criticising SL2, I'm sure there were lots of managers that took the time to make the change from SL1, and got hooked liked the majority of us did on SL1. It's unfair for anyone to judge a game unless they have played it over a long period of time. It was a personal choice when SL2 was released, there were those that left SL1 and were happy to make the transition to SL2, those that remained with SL1 and didn't want to or have the time to invest in playing a game that was quite different to SL1 , those that were playing both at the same time, and over time those that returned to SL1 preferring the old format to the new.

One of the best features about SL1 is it's simplicity, so easy to play, and takes little time and effort to manage a team each day. Ideal for setting up tactics the night before or early morning before going to work, and a few minutes required in the evening to check results, change between rest & re-hab,  and set up for the next day. Better suited for those of us that don't have lot's of time on our hands to invest, but still gain lot's of satisfaction from the game.
So this is my own USP ( Ultimate Selling Point in Marketing terms ) for SL1

So I can only speak for SL1 as that is the game I personally preferred to continue playing when SL2 was released, and the game I've played since registering back in March 2004 on the Team Talk server.

No doubt a business / development / marketing / advertising strategy & plan will be produced for the short / medium, and long term goals for the game.
Short term possibly 3-6 months, medium term 6 months to 2 years, and long term from 2 years onward.

We will all have our own ideas of what we would like to see in terms of development over time, and would all contribute to providing ideas and a wish list for future features to the game. So i will start the ball rolling, maybe a separate thread will be introduced on the forum for us all to contribute to the wish list.

Short Term

- Establish the future of the game ( business plan / strategy, talks between Mustapha & Junior, members wish list ). Answer the questions, where do we
  want to take the game? how do we get there? how do we attract new players / members? what countries would we like to expand to in the long term?
  what is the best way to advertise and market the game in the UK and in other countries?
- Bring the game up to date by fixing any bugs and re-coding so that is in a format and ready for future development
- Communication, provide regular feedback to the community via the forum / in the game of how development is progressing and what the intentions are
  for the games future. Ensure feedback is answered promptly.
- Create a help / support / tutorial section for new players, as well as existing players.

Medium Term to Long

- Introduce game development updates on a regular basis incorporating the best features of the wish list from the forum. A few examples are;
  True league pyramid system. One top tier ( Premier League of 16 teams ) above the 8 Conference top divisions. the top 2 in each Conference X-1-1
  would play the bottom 8 teams in the premier league over two legs to either try to gain promotion to the premier league or fight to remain in the
  premier league. ( Just my own idea ) Would need some thought though regarding Inter-Conference qualification, Champions Shield, and Elite Cup.
  Incorporate the Friendly Leagues as part of the game. Incorporate UCB ( Ultimate Conference Battle ) as a feature of the game.
  Incorporate the official ranking system as part of the game
  Enable selling, as well as buying players on the transfer market, player auctions, etc. Obviously update the existing transfer market.
  Introduce bigger squads, youth players / squads
  Give players on the transfer markets and in squads real values so i.e. a player costing 10,000 credits would be £10,000,000. ! credit = £1000
  Introduce a player star systems so that the best players can be recognised as super stars, super talents, etc.
  Develop an in game feature so you can watch the highlights of your match rather than knowing the result straight away ( adds a bit of excitement ).
  Anyone who has ever played "Rocking Soccer" would know the kind of match simulation that could be produced of the actual match.
  Introduce facilities such as a stadium that can be developed so that virtual income can be generated from fans attendance
  Gradually introduce the game to other countries, the ultimate goal to establish markets in Europe and the continent so that i.e. a proper champions
  league can be introduced over time
  Introduce national teams so that a player can manage a national team and pick from the creme de la creme of players from different countries, proper
  tournaments such as the European, World cup etc.

I've played and I am playing quite a few footy management games, so just a few suggestions that might or might not be possible if the game is to be developed and moved on over time

Cheers

Deca

[davef]

One of the best features about SL1 is it's simplicity, so easy to play, and takes little time and effort to manage a team each day. Ideal for setting up tactics the night before or early morning before going to work, and a few minutes required in the evening to check results, change between rest & re-hab,  and set up for the next day. Better suited for those of us that don't have lot's of time on our hands to invest, but still gain lot's of satisfaction from the game.

Personal opinion again but although I love SL I don't (after 20? odd years of playing) have the time (or desire) anymore to deeply analyze it all.  If I have that kind of time I'd rather play Chess, cook a nice meal, do a Cryptic crossword --- or just sleep. Or talk to the wife. Or dog.

I don't see the games necessarily being mutually exclusive but they are different and, if finances are limited, it could surely conceivably come down to a choice between the two?  I know others on SL1 have suggested in the past that they would invest in taking over the SL1 version of the game but has anyone on SL2 checked to see if any individual (or group) would be be willing to take that version forward separately?  Just a thought.

[munkeespuzz]

One of the best features about SL1 is it's simplicity, so easy to play, and takes little time and effort to manage a team each day. Ideal for setting up tactics the night before or early morning before going to work, and a few minutes required in the evening to check results, change between rest & re-hab,  and set up for the next day. Better suited for those of us that don't have lot's of time on our hands to invest, but still gain lot's of satisfaction from the game.

Personal opinion again but although I love SL I don't (after 20? odd years of playing) have the time (or desire) anymore to deeply analyze it all.  If I have that kind of time I'd rather play Chess, cook a nice meal, do a Cryptic crossword --- or just sleep. Or talk to the wife. Or dog.

I don't see the games necessarily being mutually exclusive but they are different and, if finances are limited, it could surely conceivably come down to a choice between the two?  I know others on SL1 have suggested in the past that they would invest in taking over the SL1 version of the game but has anyone on SL2 checked to see if any individual (or group) would be be willing to take that version forward separately?  Just a thought.

Yes it's been discussed on SL2 also. During times when junior has ignored users some have discussed getting a consortium together to make an offer much the same as on here. We've also had a user offer his time free of charge to fix bugs. There's not really much difference between both sites. Both get ignored by those who run the franchise....and both have been underdeveloped and advertised.

As for many of the changes suggested by Deca. Some you list above are already available on SL2. Larger squads....the ability to sell players and pitch development. The ability to watch matches before seeing the result was a great inclusion too. Thing is....if you want the simplicity of SL1 with just some added features, that product is already there and has been since 2011.
I think we really need some conversation with Mustafa if his talks with Junior prove successful. Everyone needs to come together and decide exactly what they want from Sundayleague as a product in General. I believe Terry had a great vision to bring this game up to date with other online apps. Sadly we will never know the full extent of his ideas but I do believe discussion will bring us closer to what we all want as a community.

[Angele]

Just wondering who plays both. Regularly. And with equal commitment of time and funds?

[captain_kush]

Some fantastic ideas Deca.
I don't want to start going into proper details into what I am going to do to improve SL until proper talks with Junior are happening with vast improvements and productivity. There's no point saying this and that until SL is in my hands as I don't want to get people's hopes up.

I am still awaiting another reply from Junior. I have only received one email from him in which I will share. I sent an email trying to sort out a meeting. Since then I have not heard anything back. I have sent another email to Junior last Friday 26th Oct. I'm hoping Junior will reply back to me sometime this week.

Everything just depends on Junior. From the email he sent, it shows he is willing to discuss further and sell. The quicker he replies back to me, the quicker talks can be, the quicker I can take over, the quicker SL becomes better.

[captain_kush]

Good news. I have received another email from Junior today.
Will be having a call with him tomorrow.

[munkeespuzz]

Just wondering who plays both. Regularly. And with equal commitment of time and funds?

I play both. I have to admit I only play SL1 as a non supporter but I did have millions of credits when the servers merged, so I've just been using those up ever since. I left when SL2 started and I didn't really start playing again until a few seasons ago. Id just been keeping teams alive because of history. I think there are about 5 other users who play both versions actively. Not sure how many invest in both.

[Cove]

Good news. I have received another email from Junior today.
Will be having a call with him tomorrow.

Looking forward to hearing how this goes.

[deca]

Thanks Mustapha for keeping us all posted on events, and hope the talks go well with Junior,

Could be the start of an exciting new chapter for the game   

Cheers

Deca

[captain_kush]

Hi guys, a quick update:

I had a very good call with Junior over the phone on yesterday and today we had a meeting at my office.
Talks have been really good and positive so far... Junior and myself are eager to collaborate and help each other in regards to improving SL as a whole. We both feel this is the best thing to do. Junior is not looking to sell SL completely and to be honest, I would want Junior to stay as he knows the game inside out, more than anyone and having him part of the team would be indispensable.
I am willing to invest money into SL to cover several key points.
The first thing to do would be to recode the whole game (SL1) in order to fix key issues that is currently on going with the game. This is a must as firstly, the backend has been coded with C++ which in this day is not good nor strong enough. We will have to change this and use a different language such as PHP (just like SL2) as this will improve SL1 as a whole and make it easier to fix any problems. Secondly other issues such as the match engine will have to be refined in order for a better customer experience. As you know, the match engine is not the best at this current moment and for this I would need the SL community to write down and explain what they feel the match engine needs improving on (formations, subs, tactical approach etc). Once these maintenance issues have been cleared (please also let me know of all issues that you feel is affecting the SL as a whole and how can we improve these). I have a shit load of developers who are willing to do all of this and I will be with them step by step to make sure everything is done correctly and efficiently.
Once these main issues have been cleared, we then focus onto bringing more users via advertising and marketing. There is no point doing this first as I don't want new users signing up to a broken game and then leaving after a week or whatever. I have a marketing team that can assist in this along with some valuable connections. LADBible office is located in the same building as mine and I have spoken to some workers there regarding advertising. Moreover we will use social media such as twitter and Instagram to promote SL in order to create some noise. Not to mention also that the CEO of the company i'm correctly working in knows the owners of a well known and established betting company. We then look at ways of expanding the game such as adding new features and creating a mobile app.

Junior will be sending me documentation so that I can look at it and pass it on my team. We will be scheduling another call for the end of next week. So far so good guys and I am happy I have been able to progress regarding this. Also a big thank you to Junior who did respond to me and allow further talks.

[Gull]

That's great news and sounds promising. Well done Kush & Junior.