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Author Topic: The Films Thread  (Read 289652 times)

Offline styles

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #105 on: July 04, 2012, 08:05:13 AM »
There is the legality of downloading films harv.

Plus the big issue for me is the sound/picture quality
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Offline jman

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #106 on: July 04, 2012, 09:05:19 AM »
Why bother going to work either people... go down the dole office and get free money and you can do what you want all week!!! LOL SUCKERZZZZ!!!!!

Offline Late

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #107 on: July 04, 2012, 09:51:32 AM »
Watched "Man on a Ledge" and "Lockout" in the last couple of days.

Man on a Ledge is a thriller/heist movie without a great many thrills. It's watchable but predictable. 6.5/10

Lockout is an action film with strong comedy undertones. I'm pretty sure the comedy's deliberate, but sometimes you can't be sure. Very silly, but again a watchable flick. I'll go with 6.5/10 for this one, too.
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Offline harv

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #108 on: July 04, 2012, 11:22:29 AM »
There is the legality of downloading films harv.

Plus the big issue for me is the sound/picture quality

Meh to the legality of it lol ;D

And the sound and picture quality isn't an issue these days, a great deal of stuff is HD. The only problem with sound and picture quality is with downloading stuff that's currently only available to watch in the cinema. It used to be an issue with some stuff years ago but not nowadays. ;D

I just think it's a complete waste of money forking out a monthly fee for severely restricted viewing with adverts.
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Offline Late

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #109 on: July 04, 2012, 12:08:57 PM »
Should get rid of our Sky subscription, to be honest. Pay about £25 a month I think, and aside from the footy last month I watch about 2-3 hours a week - whereas I watch about 20-30 hours a week of downloaded material.

As Harv says, quality of downloads is okay these days, if you go to the right places and pick the right files. The copy of Lockout I watched last night was very high quality (much better than dvd - comparable to full blu-ray), with the file coming in at a shade under 8gb.
There are loads of other copies of the film available, including the more traditional 750mb versions (quality slightly less than dvd) and loads of camcorder versions. You pick the one you want, cross your fingers, and leave the computer for a while. If it's a small file you'll usually have it in a couple hours. If it's a big file it might take a day or two.

I usually stick with the 750mb versions, though. Not great quality, but if I enjoy it I'm more than happy to then go and buy the bluray version - so long as I can find it for around £6 (which is usually do-able if you're patient).
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Offline harv

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #110 on: July 04, 2012, 12:49:58 PM »
Yup, things have come along in leaps and bounds during the last few years and if it's going to be on Sky then you're pretty much guaranteed that there's a Blu-Ray rip out there which will also save you subscribing to a Sky HD channel. And with the help of Google you'll be able to find plenty of seeds and will be able to download a HD video file in minutes assuming you've got a decent internet connection.

But the biggest difference for me is the football. It's a major pain in the arse that we can't see whatever football match we want.
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Offline Dragontao

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #111 on: July 04, 2012, 11:08:53 PM »
There is the legality of downloading films harv.

Plus the big issue for me is the sound/picture quality

Don't even get me started on this debate. Oh damn it. Too late.

The immoral practices of the media companies who produce music and films is unbelievable and it's not the casual buyer who they target with their practices but the real fans. How many different versions of a film can they release. Lord of the Rings or Star Wars are very good examples. We have special editions, Ltd editions, director's cuts, anniversary editions etc etc etc.

When they released Star Wars parts 1 and 2 (Phantom Menace etc) as a two DVD set (before the third one had been released) the back cover of the box set contained the following "contains deleted scenes specially made for this edition). Well they weren't deleted then were they, they were created for the DVD release. It's a great way of getting the real fan to not only see the film at the cinema but then buy the DVD for all these little extras and any subsequent special editions for the additional extras. Music is no different either.

I've heard the argument that you can simply wait for the special edition to come out. Yeah maybe, except you don't know when that will be. It could be as little as two weeks after the initial release, a year, 10 years or 25 years (anniversary editions) after the original. They claim we have a choice, but the fact is we don't have a choice because in 95% of cases we don't know what that choice is until long after we have made an initial purchase.

The media companies are ripping real fans off left right and centre. They get away with it because their immoral practices are deemed legal. It's the effect on the media companies ability to continue these rip offs that really has them up in arms and the loss of their ability to rip people off, not a loss of general sales.

For a start, the big companies did everything they could to stop the likes of Play.com from selling films and music more cheaply (fortunately the internet based companies got around that one). Independent commisions in the past have ruled and categorically stated that media is over-priced, even drawing admissions of that fact from the media moguls themselves. Not that the Government will do anything about these inflated prices because they lose 20p for every £1 we save. Often I'll download a film if I've missed it at the cinema but will wait until it's a reasonable price on Play or in Asda for a fiver before purchasing it - prices that the industry can absorb but don't like to because they are ripping us off. All downloaders are doing is fighting back against this.

I don't buy DVD box sets when they are first released now. The prices at that time are artificially inflated to maximise income from a high demand. Many a box set I've bought in the past has been available 6 months to a year later for less than half the price of the original release. If I didn't download the TV programmes then I would never buy the box sets. Most of which are actually free to air in America or have not even been shown in the UK yet. In the past I have actively written to terrestrial TV channels to promote a show that has not aired here yet, urging them to buy it before Sky get their grubby mitts on it. Nothing wrong in downloading a show that is free to air in my opinion, no different to recording it from the TV.

Another argument they might use is the loss of advertising revenue for the stations that air the shows. Well simple solution, get the cappers and rippers to leave the ads in. People have options now for skipping ads then those that don't want to watch them in the downloaded file can still skip them, as they would if they were using some of the advanced features on a TIVO box or some freeview boxes, or a recording of the show they have made themselves.

Then there's the fact that the companies making shows don't care about the fans. A show could have a few million followers, sell a lot of box sets of its first season but still get axed for low ratings, leaving millions of people with no ending to a story and a box set with no subsequent ending. The fans do ot matter to the corporations producing these tv shows.

They claim that downloading hurts the industry. An absolute lie. It has been proven in studies by respected universities such as Harvard that downloading has a "less than negligible effect on sales". Downloaders fall into two categories. 1. The ones who would never have bought the product themselves in the first place (no effect on sales). 2. The ones who not only still buy the product after they have downloaded it but also buy more as a result of discovering new films, TV programmes and music as a result. (an increase in sales, people seeing live performances).

It has been proven that a large majority of downloaders purchase far more as a result of downloading. Stopping downloading will have a negative effect on sales.

Then there's the fact that artists these days get a miniscule amount of the money from the sales of music these days. I prefer to buy an artist's CD's at a gig if I can, because they get a number of copies to sell themselves and they get a full slice of the money when they sell them at gigs.  Most acts make their money from live performances these days.

It's why X-factor is great for Simon Cowell. The recording contracts he gives the winners makes him a fortune from sales to the mugs who buy them, while the winners themselves get a pretty poor deal out of it.

I fall into category 2. I don't often download films, usually as a result of missing it at the cinema but don't want to waste money buying it on DVD/Blu-ray unless it's any good, so I like to see it first. It's bad enough when you waste £10 on a cinema ticket to see a film that turns out to have been overhyped. You can't get your money back for a crap product at a cinema. I would save a fortune on music and films if I didn't download because I'd never have kown about half the stuff I have bought. I have seen a lot of bands/singers live I would never have bothered with if not for downloading.

There's also the fact that many people, like myself, prefer a hard copy of a CD, DVD/Blu-ray or a book to a digital copy of the media. A digital copy is a temporary thing for me or, in the case of music, something I can slap on a DVD/CD for playing in the car without having to carry the original media around with me. (I'll leave DRM, the disgraceful way it has been used and the way it infringes our consumer rights out of this debate for now).

Then there's Sky, who wait until a series is popular then poach it from terrestrial TV to basically try and force people to subscribe to Sky on top of a TV license to continue watching those programmes. Immoral. Lost being a very good example. Thank you torrents. (I own all six series of Lost on DVD but have only opened the packaging to watch some of the special features).


The final thing to note here is that government plans to stop downloading will fail miserably. New technology will be developed to circumvent it. It will also backfire on their attempts to stop what they claim are crimes funded by piracy because most people who download using torrents and the like don't pay for it, thereby not providing the criminals with any money. By stopping downloading they will see an increase in actual piracy, which with the advent of sites such as e-bay, will lead to unstoppable levels of piracy and people buying what they think are genuine products there but being ripped off by untraceable companies selling pirated copies on the net.

The use of proxy servers will rocket. Again leading to a greater awareeness of these and an increase in their use to mask real crime. The development of greater encryption levels for use in downloading software will also lead to more safeguards for criminals. Attempts by goverment security departments to break this encryption will affect confidence in e-commerce.

Whoever is advising the government is misguided (or in the pockets of the media companies) and the government are a bunch of idiots. They won't stop downloading, but they will increase crime and help facilitate crime by their actions. The Government's advisors clearly have no I.T backgrounds/qualifications, that's for sure.

A simple solution, which would bring in large sums for the media industry beyond what they already get, is to implement a levy on downloaded data. It only has to be a very small sum. Say 1 or 2 pence per gig. It would hardly be noticeable for those not downloading large amounts. For those downloading a lot of data, be it legal or otherwise, it wouldn't be a lot. It wouldn't put off those who already buy what they download from buying it and would still rake in extra money from those who wouldn't buy it in the first place.

It's the same as is already in place and a principal that lead to a judge in Canada ruling that file sharing is legal because the media corporations are already being paid a levy from the sales of recording equipment and blank media, which was first introduced when the humble cassette tape was invented and the argument about people taping from the radio and from LP's and then CD's raged in the way that the downloading issue does today.

People are already paying a levy on their internet connections and broadband to supposedly fund upgrades in the systems, the roll out of broadband to underserved areas etc. So any argument of why people who aren't doing anything wrong should pay is moot. We're already paying for other people's connections.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 11:19:06 PM by Dragontao »
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Offline Late

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #112 on: July 04, 2012, 11:48:45 PM »
Probably the longest post I've ever read. Seen longer ones of course but usually give up a quarter of the way though.

Some fantastic points there, Drags. If i had a cap I'd be doffing it in your greneral direction right now.
Of course, your arguments are un ikely to change anyones minds, though. Its easy (and I suppose understandable) for folk to believe downloading to be wrong without looking into it - irrespective of the facts.
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Offline styles

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #113 on: July 05, 2012, 11:30:27 PM »
Something can be illegal but that doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

Downloading films is illegal in the eyes of the law. You make very good points drag.
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Offline Dragontao

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #114 on: July 06, 2012, 01:33:25 AM »
Well there are issues there as well. Downloading is not, as far as I'm aware, a crminal offence. Any legal action has to be taken as a civil case which is why the media corporations have to take out individual prosecutions in every case.

What is happening with these cases is that the crown, who are supposed to remain impartial in these cases are in fact taking sides. The new regulations being brought in whereby ISPs have to provide information to media corporations is taking sides. Then there is this business of ISPs having to issue three warnings to individuals before taking further action such as slowing their connections or cutting them off altogether. Even worse is the fact that an individual accused in this way, even if they are innocent and know they are innocent (many ways it could happen, victims of IP address cloning, having an unsecured wireless connection amongst others) they will have to pay to have the right to appeal against such an accusation. There is a presumption of guilty until proven innocent, completely contrary to one of the main principles of law in this (and most) country. Even worse you have to pay to be able to even claim your innocence, let alone fight your own corner.

The ISPs are against it. They know full well that a large amount of customers will no longer have a need for the fastes connection speeds and will simply drop to a lower connection for less money.

However, the Government in this case are totally in the pocket of these media corporations, allowing them to systematically rip us off, just as they have allowed the financial institutions to do the same. Now I wouldn't be as cyincial as to say many of those in Goverment stand to profit from this or land jobs with these institutions (okay, actually I would be that cynical, which is borne out by the kind of wining and dining Mandelson received in America from many of these companies when he was proposing measures like this).

Now if people are encrypting torrent traffic using a program such as Utorrent, the only way the ISPs and media companies will really be able to tell what people are downloading will be to crack that encryption, which as I've said will lead to two things. 1. The implemenation of higher rates of encryption in the software, which if they then try to crack it will lead to 2. The undermining of e-commerce and online banking because it will be less safe than it is now.

Apart from cracking the encryption, they will have to base their assumptions that people are file sharing  on the amount of upload data. Many private torrent trackers have options to pay for leaching without having any requirement to upload data. As long as the uploaders are from countries which don't have the laws we have, those people who do this will not necessarily have to upload a lot of data and will stay under the radar.

Alternatively, or in conjunction with this, there is the option of a proxy server or a seedbox, or a combination of the two. With a proxy server, what you download and upload will disappear into the ether, the people watching your connection will still see the amount of data uploaded and downloaded but not where from or where to. The use of a seedbox enables users to download data to it (think of it as an online storage area you pay for) however the isp will only see the amount of data downloaded not what is uploaded because those downloading from you are downloading from this online storage area. For all the ISPs know, you will be downloading perfectly legal data/films/music or whatever (remember it's still going to be encrypted) while not appearing to be uploading anything. Therefore there can be no presumption and no proof of guilt. They would fail miserably if they tried to take you to court because you could just say you were watching videos on youtube or hidefinition webcams, they would not be able to prove otherwise.

The only people who will get caught will be those who aren't that well informed and those using public trackers. As I said, more people will become wise to technology such as proxy servers and seedboxes. Which in turn will facilitate other types of crime as well.

Those who aren't aware of these things may well turn to buying physical pirated copies of films and music. Often they may be unaware of the fact they are buying pirated material if purchased online from a site such as E-bay. This passes the legal burden from the media corporations, having to take out civil actions against offenders, to both law enforcement and local authority trading standards departments. The end result of which will be that convictions of pirates will be minimal, while those ripped off by them get no justice, but the media companies will be able to continue their immoral practices aided and abetted by the peoplke we are stupid enough to elect.

Copyright law needs to be seriously reformed in this country. Making material fall into the public domain much more quickly than it does now and preventing companies from extending copyright protections. That would at least stop the proliferation of all of these special editions and anniversary editions, where any old material should be in the public domain and free. Won't happen though because of many of the already stated reasons. 
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Offline harv

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #115 on: July 06, 2012, 03:21:17 AM »
Everything that drags said.. 8)

There was a great deal of fuss a couple of years ago about Davenport Lyons, a law firm that started to sue supposed 'copyright infringers' allegedly uploading copyrighted material. There was talk of them being disbarred I think lol.

There were pensioners accused of filesharing gay porn as far as I remember lololol ;D I think that Which magazine took up their case.

Load of old bollocks imo, I encrypt everything so don't have any worries. 8)

Like I've said, I have no problem ripping off Murdoch, the bloke is pure scum.
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Offline jman

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #116 on: July 06, 2012, 08:50:15 AM »
Personally there are parts of drags arguments that I find a bit skeptical and dont agree with.. however the size of his posts make me fearful to even bother to try and argue against them all lol... I'll start with two bits though...

Quote
They claim that downloading hurts the industry. An absolute lie. It has been proven in studies by respected universities such as Harvard that downloading has a "less than negligible effect on sales". Downloaders fall into two categories. 1. The ones who would never have bought the product themselves in the first place (no effect on sales). 2. The ones who not only still buy the product after they have downloaded it but also buy more as a result of discovering new films, TV programmes and music as a result. (an increase in sales, people seeing live performances).


a) Im a downloader.. sometimes I have missed films at the cinema and download them before they even come out on dvd.. hence killing the sale I would of made... im not going to buy a dvd at full price of a film that I can watch anytime, I think its laughable to think anyone even does that more often than my scenario (in which you have also attested too)...  a small amount of sales at full price, beats a lot of sales at a low price - so how does that not have an effect... ?

b) How do you discover new films, TV programmes and music as a result of downloading ??  Surely when films and TV programmes usually contain adverts or trailers that are appropriate to the thing your watching.. surely that has more of a beneficial effect than having a download which doesnt include them.  If your searching for stuff and come across new things.. surely your just going to download them "for free" as well anyway.  The idea of uploaders leaving the adverts in is a bit ridiculous to be honest.. would you download a film with adverts or no adverts in if you were given a choice?


Quote
It has been proven that a large majority of downloaders purchase far more as a result of downloading. Stopping downloading will have a negative effect on sales.

Baloney.. again, this would assume that people who download stuff actually go out and buy the same material at full price.. you dont, I dont, they dont... negative effect on sales doesnt equate to negative effect on profit margins either... 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 08:52:17 AM by jman »

Offline ancelotti

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #117 on: July 06, 2012, 12:29:20 PM »
I hope you're prepared for what you've gotten yourself into, Jman.  :P

Offline jman

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #118 on: July 06, 2012, 03:54:26 PM »
lol im used to disagreeing with drags.. and I havent totally disagreed with him.. I do agree with him on parts.. such as technology finding ways round most restrictions put in place.. virgin media customers have been "blocked" from piratebay for instance.. but there are ways around the ban already.... but drags' main point is to blame the rising costs of media for the increase of illegal downloading.. when you consider a song on itunes costs about 79p to download.. Im afraid I have to beg to differ.

Films can also be obtained in a much cheaper fashion than the price Sky favours too.. in fact.. a subscription to LoveFilm for example costs less than a subscription to Sky and you get to see films before they are released on Sky.. but since downloading is FREE it doesn't make a difference.. and thats the real crux here.. its EASY, QUICK and FREE to download something for nothing.. thats why illegal download numbers have been increasing year on year.. and they will continue to do so as the majority of downloaders are the younger generation who have attitudes similar to drags.. which is "its OK to download illegally"..

but then Im not trying to preach the legality of it all.. Im just saying the attitude needs to change to stop download numbers rising.. like I said, Im a downloader myself.. but only because Im allowed to be.. I remember having my tape recorder poised for the chart countdowns on sundays - that was about the extent of my piracy back then - never harmed me not having the freedom to listen or watch whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted...

Offline Dragontao

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Re: The Films Thread
« Reply #119 on: July 07, 2012, 11:15:18 AM »
Edit: Well you knew this would happen lol.  ;D :P

a) Im a downloader.. sometimes I have missed films at the cinema and download them before they even come out on dvd.. hence killing the sale I would of made... im not going to buy a dvd at full price of a film that I can watch anytime, I think its laughable to think anyone even does that more often than my scenario (in which you have also attested too)...  a small amount of sales at full price, beats a lot of sales at a low price - so how does that not have an effect... ?

As I said, downloaders and purchasers fall into categories. There are plenty, like myself, who still buy what they download and research has shown that to increase sales, particularly of music.

Seriously, if downloading is hurting the industry, explain why digital music sales are up by over 17%.

http://www.nme.com/news/miscellaneous/64713

DVD sales topped the 1 Billion in the UK in 10 years from their arrival in 1998 until around 2008. It took video sales 17 years to do that, despite the fact that downloads were not a problem in the VHS heydey.

DVD sales are down but as well as the advent of Blu-ray contributing to this, one of the things being blamed for the fall in DVD sales is actually the boom in internet TV and sites like Netflix and Lovefilm, not just downloading, but it is downloading that gets the main flack for it. The fact is that the downloaders like me who actually buy the stuff like a physical copy, while those who wouldn't buy are are happy just being able to watch it online, hurting sales of the physical items.

Blu-ray sales themselves continue to rise as do the sales of online delivery of media, a trend that is expected to continue.

So basically the evidence that downloading is hurting music sales is clearly an absolute and utter lie and, similarly, the claims that it is downloading hurting DVD/blu-ray sales is also plainly false when there are multiple causes for this and evidence against (it in the form of increased blu-ray sales and rising digital media sales compensating for losses in physical media sales).

If your searching for stuff and come across new things.. surely your just going to download them "for free" as well anyway.

You want an example. Jack Savoretti. Bought all three of his albums so far. Saw him live last month. Bought the CD of one of the supporting acts at the gig and will buy the CD of the other supporting act when it is releasead at the end of the year). That's 4 albums and 1 live gig, with another album and future purchases resulting from 1 downloaded album.

Another example. Life (cop show, not the David Attenborough series  - though I have that on DVD as well). Downloaded it, bought the DVD box sets, even though it was shown on terrestrial TV in the UK at a later date.

I have hundreds more examples if you want them.

You completely miss the point about downloaders falling into categories, largely being those who download and would never buy and those who download and do buy (whether that's just a fraction of the stuff they think is good and worth buying can be divided into further sub-categories). If I download a film and it turns out to be crap, I'm not going to buy it. If I went to see it at the cinema and thought it was crap I'd have wasted my money. By downloading I may discover a film I might not have wanted to see at the cinema in case I was going to waste my money in that way, but it has subsequently lead to a sale of the DVD due to enjoying the film. If it was just a case of seeing it at the cinema or renting it (even online), I wouldn't have seen the film and there would have been no sale. Occasionally I do buy DVD's at knockdown prices in Asda on a whim. Bought some good films in that way and bought some bad ones. Can't get my money back if I think it's crap. 

How do you discover new films, TV programmes and music as a result of downloading ??  Surely when films and TV programmes usually contain adverts or trailers that are appropriate to the thing your watching.. surely that has more of a beneficial effect than having a download which doesnt include them. 

I'm talking about films that may have had limited release at the cinema or gone straight to DVD. I've discovered quite a few good films (and a lot of bad films) in this way. If they've been good I've bought them on DVD when they have been available cheaply.

As for TV programmes. A lot of shows either don't get aired in the UK for some time (if at all) after being shown in the US. Or they don't get aired on terrestrial TV because Sky nab them. In the case of the former, chances are I'd never have heard of them if not for seeing them on a torrent site and wondering what they were or if they're any good. I might look them up on IMDB if there isn't any info on the torrent site and then download it if I think I might like it. If they're any good I carry on downloading them and then buy the dvd box sets. In many cases I'll wait until the end of the show or it gets cancelled and a complete box set (example: Prison Break). If a show gets cancelled without a decent end I'm not going to purchase the DVDs (eg Flashforward) in the same way as I wouldn't buy a book with half the pages missing. I won't subscribe to sky under any circumstances. I'd rather give up watching TV altogether.

In answer to another point, if a show hasn't aired in the UK yet, I can't see the trailers or advertisements contained within it for other shows that may be appropriate to the one I'm watching.

In the case of music. I rarely listen to the radio and there wouldn't be enough time in the day for radio stations to play all new music, if most of them bothered to even play anything other than mainstream crap and Simon Cowell's manufactured rubbish anyway. I discover new music in two ways. 1. Seeing live bands, often as support artists to other bands or at festivals. 2. Downloading something because it catches my eye and I wonder what it sounds like. If I like it I buy it and more often than not see the act live if I get a chance.

Now a very good example of why I download is Hill Street Blues. They released the first two series on DVD. I purchased the box sets. They were supposed to be releasing the other five seasons on DVD as well, having given a date for season 3 to be released. They never did release them. I e-mailed the company and asked them why. They didn't reply. So I downloaded the other five seasons.


The idea of uploaders leaving the adverts in is a bit ridiculous to be honest.. would you download a film with adverts or no adverts in if you were given a choice?

The fact that I can skip adverts, just as I can if I record a show from TV, means it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. There are even TV boxes that allow you to skip ads. There's actually a dispute going on about this in America at the moment because of one such digital recording box allows people to skip ads on a particular cable channel.

Baloney.. again, this would assume that people who download stuff actually go out and buy the same material at full price.. you dont, I dont, they dont... negative effect on sales doesnt equate to negative effect on profit margins either...

You're wrong about my not buying stuff at full price. I have bought plenty of stuff I've downloaded at full price, usually because special editions of releases may have a limited run and I don't want to have to pay a collectos premium at a later date if it isn't available. Examples being the Special edition of Springsteen's Wrecking Ball album and Weller's latest album. I've also bought plenty of DVD box sets at full price because I don't want to wait. Recent examples being the season one box set of Game of Thrones (impulse purchase in Asda, though it was only about a quid more expensive than Play.com).

You're right, the effect on sales and profit margins is a different thing. Downloading having no negative impact on sales (in terms of numbers of items) can still have a negative impact on profit margins. However, their profit margins are artificial because they are ripping people off with what they have freely admitted (albeit freely admitted because they were caught in a lie) that they are selling their goods at overinflated prices and they tried to protect this by attempting to stop them being sold more cheaply.

However. As with downloaders falling into two categories, there's a similar thing with purchasers. Those who purchase things right away and those who wait until things come down in price. A relatively small effect on profit margins. It's not just downloaders who wait to purchase things at a cheaper price though! Plenty of people will do the same when they want to purchase something. It's called not wanting to be ripped off. That goes for just about every type of product, not just entertainment media.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 11:21:37 AM by Dragontao »
Choosing which political party to vote for is like trying to decide if you'd rather have syphilis, gonorrhea or herpes.