The Films Thread

[Dragontao]

I seem to recall a documentary (I think in the vhs box set) saying he only decided to call it episode iv after he'd finished making the first film.

Well this is from Wookiepedia: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/History_of_Star_Wars

n 1971, United Artists agreed to make American Graffiti and Star Wars in a two-picture contract, though they would reject Star Wars in its early concept stages. Graffiti was made first and when it was completed in 1973, Lucas set to work on making his space adventure movie. In early 1973, Lucas wrote a short summary called "The Journal of the Whills", which told the tale of the training of apprentice C.J. Thorpe as a "Jedi-Bendu" space commando by the legendary Mace Windy.

Frustrated that his story was too hard to understand, Lucas then wrote a 13-page treatment called The Star Wars, which was a loose remake of Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. By 1974, he had expanded the treatment into a rough draft screenplay, which added elements such as the Sith, the Death Star, and once more had the protagonist as a young boy, named Anakin Starkiller. For the second draft, Lucas made heavy simplifications, and also introduced the young hero on a farm, with his name now Luke rather than Anakin. Luke/Anakin's father is still an active character in the story at this point, a wise Jedi knight, and "the Force" now became a supernatural power. The next draft removed the father character and replaced him with a substitute named Ben Kenobi, and in 1976 a fourth draft had been prepared for principal photography. The film was titled "Adventures of Luke Starkiller, as taken from the Journal of the Whills, Saga I: The Star Wars." During production, Lucas changed Luke's name to Skywalker and altered the title to just "The Star Wars" and finally "Star Wars".

At this point, Lucas was thinking of the film as the only entry that would be made — the fourth draft underwent subtle changes that made it more satisfying as a self-contained film that ended with the destruction of the Empire itself, as the Death Star was said to achieve; possibly this was a result of the frustrating difficulties Lucas had encountered in pre-production during that period. However, in previous times Lucas had conceived of the film as the first in a series of adventures. The second draft contained a teaser for a never-made sequel about "The Princess of Ondos", and by the time of the third draft some months later Lucas had negotiated a contract that gave him rights to make two sequels. Not long after, Lucas met with author Alan Dean Foster, and hired him to write these two sequels — as novels. The intention was that if Star Wars was successful — and if Lucas felt like it — the novels could be adapted into screenplays. He had also by this point developed a fairly elaborate backstory — though this was not designed or intended for filming; it was merely backstory. "The backstory wasn't meant to be a movie," Lucas has said.

When Star Wars was successful, and not just successful but the biggest hit ever made at that time, Lucas decided to use the film as a springboard for an elaborate serial, although he considered walking away from the series altogether. However, Lucas wanted to create an independent filmmaking center — what would become Skywalker Ranch — and saw an opportunity to use the series as a financing agent for him. Alan Dean Foster had already begun writing the sequel as a novel, but Lucas decided to disregard that for filming and create more elaborate film sequels; the book was released as Splinter of the Mind's Eye the next year. At first Lucas envisioned an unlimited number of sequels, much like the James Bond series, and in an interview with Rolling Stone in August of 1977 said that he wanted his friends to take a try directing them and giving unique interpretations on the series. He also said that the backstory where Darth Vader turns to the dark side, kills Luke's father and fights Ben Kenobi on a volcano as the Republic falls would make an excellent sequel. Later that year, Lucas hired sci-fi author Leigh Brackett to write "Star Wars II" with him. They held story conferences together and in late November of 1977 Lucas had produced a handwritten treatment called "The Empire Strikes Back." The story is very similar to the final film except Darth Vader does not reveal he is Luke's father. In the first draft that Leigh Brackett would write from this, Luke's father appears as a ghost to instruct Luke.

"Splinter of the Minds Eye" is an excellent book for those who have never read it.

[Dragontao]

Pompeii. Seriously, don't bother to pay to see it.

Fight scenes okay(ish), nothing spectacular (and not much blood and gore). Effects okay(ish), not overly impressed and some a bit lame. Ridiculous love story based on the amount of time they knew each other. Kiefer Sutherland's voice as the Roman senator - just weird (stick to Jack Bauer, it;s what you're good at). 3.5/10

Grudge Match:
Stallone and De Niro. Now this I enjoyed. Pretty much a comedy with some quite funny moments (I won't spoil it, but the bit during and after the credits with Holyfield and Tyson made me chuckle quite a bit). 7.5/10

[jman]

I watched both Pompeii and Robocop over the weekend.

Pompeii
I was actually going to go to the cinema to watch Pompeii but my local only had the 2D showing on at 11:30am every day which I complained about because they had 5 showings of the 3D version on each day...  they emailed me back saying they had no control of what and when they show..     Whatever.... just so happened across a YIFY download.. so screw you.

Good bloody job I didn't waste that money...I fell asleep way before the end... the settings were beautiful, the SFX were good.. but the acting was truly awful and my missus didn't like the fact they "hollywood'ised" the history (although I'm not sure what she actually expected from the film).. we didn't particularly enjoy it.

2/10


Robocop
Think you summed it up nicely late, I'm not a fan of remakes when the original is so good.. but I felt the new film did enough to differentiate it from the original and there were some good parts (like when he demands the doc to remove his suit so he can see what he looks like).. but in general I thought the film was too watered down because of its stupid PG-13 rating.  Robocop was great for me due in part to its violence, guns, gore, profanity, nudity and an underline tone of comedy.. this watered down version had the guns but bugger all else.

ED209 looked bad-ass though, that was one big improvement for sure.

5/10.


Also watched

Touching The Void
Had to watch this as my missus wanted to show her class parts of this film as their topic this term is mountains and needed to veto the parts to watch.  Its a fairly old docu-film - 2003 - based on an 80's book - based on a real life story.. about two chaps in their twenties attempting to climb a mountain in Peru (climbing a face no-one had successfully done before).   They get to the top and then one of the chaps breaks his leg coming down - and he's basically buggered, but they work together to get down.. but they end up in a scenario where the guy with the broken leg ends up dangling off the side of the mountain tethered to the other guy still - who eventually has to cut the rope to save his own life.. the guy with the broken leg doesn't die.. and from there it gets really interesting.. I'd recommend it.. I didn't think I'd like it, but it was very watchable - and there was one scene with a LOT of profanity in it which is actually quite funny.. good job we watched it lol.

6.5/10

[Late]

Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, Drags, regarding Star Wars: A New Hope originally being Episode 4.
I'm still pretty sure it wasn't called that until after he'd finished making the first film. He definitely intended to make more films in the Star Wars universe but I don't think he was looking to make it three trilogies (with the 70's/80s films being the middle trilogy) when he started out.

That piece you've quoted mentions an intention to make more films if the first were a success (naturally enough) possibly in the form of a trilogy, but nothing about the first film being episode four.
I've had a very quick google and haven't found anything conclusive, but most of the sites I looked at indicated the first film was called Star Wars in 1977 and the "episode iv - a new hope" bit was added in 1978.


Concept art for the landspeeders in Episode VII:

[Dragontao]

My point is that he always intended it to be a series (or serial at least) in his mind), before it was ever released and he'd signed an agreement for two sequels (though I'm sure a ot depended on the success of the first). I read a lot about it back then (as a huge fan of the film) but a lot of what was written did come out after the film (media was a lot different back then with no internet and little information before it was released) but there is plenty of evidence to show his visions were of more than just a single film, but reality meant that it might have been limited to the one.

When it came out originally (bearing in mind I went to the cinema to see it the day it was released) A New Hope was never part of the titles. It wasn't just a case of it being added after the film came out, it wasn't added to the titles until the film was re-released (in 1981 after the Empire Strikes Back was released if I recall). It was at that point it became known as Star Wars: A New Hope. I think the numbering was added with episode V (but I could be wrong).

1977 credits: No episode 4: a new hope anywhere to be seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKRIUiyF0N4

It kind of supports what both of us are saying. So the truth may lie somewhere inbetween. There's a lot who suggest that Lucas had only written plot outlines for the first three movies and a lot of the actual writing was done by other people. It may not have been fully fleshed out by him as the three films we came to know but there was certainly an idea that it should be a series of films (or even a tv series) from the beginning but it evolved into the universe we now know during production, from the point of release of Star Wars and beyond.

Some say the original drafts had references to a trade federation which was the forerunner of the Empire (scarily it's a bit like the common market and the EU! - now where did I put my light sabre). So that points to the fact that Star Wars had history before it, but it may have just been the rough drafts that people suggest exist.

Not sure anyone will ever get to the bottom of it as I doubt Lucas will destroy the myth that built up around him (or admit that he alone may not have been responsible for it all).

[harv]

And whatever idiot at 20th Century Fox that said, 'No George. If you want to fuck about with merchandising and plastic figures and all that sort of bollocks you can do it on your own. We're not interested.' must have lost the use of his legs due to kicking himself, HARD, so often.

Unless that's an urban myth..? I hope that's true because I've always found it fucking hilarious lol

[harv]

Have just noticed that JFK The Smoking Gun is available on US Netflix. An excellent film/documentary, it's 86m long so not sure what you'd classify it as tbh. A retired copper in the US puts forward a VERY convincing theory on what REALLY happened that day. I think he's really hit the nail on the head.

[Late]

Affleck as Batman in the new Man of Steel film:

[harv]

After watching both Airplane films the other week I decided to re-watch the Naked Gun films too. Just started watching the first one, really funny lololol

Difficult to believe that the film was released in 1988, the year I left school

I downloaded Police Squad too ages ago, the series that the films were based on but haven't gotten around to watch it yet. Am surprised they only did one series tbh.

[jman]

Looking forward to X-Men this week - looks wicked.. we re-watched First Class over the weekend too.  Been meaning to get around to watching Sabotage at some point, but because they released it in the states months before here... I imagine it will be on download soon.

[harv]

Aw ffs, is that yet another remake..? Of the Hitchcock film..? We seem to be getting A LOT of remakes these last couple of years.

[jman]

Sabotage.. nah its arnie's new flick.. looks like a generic Training Day film to be honest, but its got Arnie in it - so I have to see it.

[Late]

Looking forward to X-Men this week - looks wicked.. we re-watched First Class over the weekend too.  Been meaning to get around to watching Sabotage at some point, but because they released it in the states months before here... I imagine it will be on download soon.

Yeah. I'm looking forward to X-Men.
In the last month I've rewatched all six of the x-men films to date

[Dragontao]

I own almost every X-men comic published (up to a few years agao) with some quite rare and valuable issues amongst that lot.

[harv]

And people call me a geek